Curse

Killed u man · Mar 19, 2009, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

I am just going to stop you here. Crits are the shit on moving foes, but so is KDing a kiting target and finishing it with a combo. Comboing on a moving foe is less effective because they can still give themselves a gap of time to not be hit by your attacks. Bulls is a universal skill among Warriors. Not bringing it, regardless if you have 100000000% movement speed, is ridding you of much needed utility.

30% of the time, PR is a Frenzy. 70% of the time, it's a sprint. 100% of the time, it's a kickass skill.

Percentages are fun.

Ok, agreed both hitting a KD'ed guy, aswell as 100000000% Movement speed is nice.

But

1) WE has also got bull's, and if anything, he'll use it more often for energy issues in the PR.

2) If your talking about finisher combo's on KD'ed guys, Bull's, Dismember, Power Attack + Prot Strike > Anything that PR can give you.

3) No matter how much movement speed you have, the second U KD your foe, your movement speed becomes absolutely useless. (In sight of killing your opponent anyways)

Percentages are fun:

WE: 30% of the time, it's the same as PR, the other 70% it's moar...

Seraphim of Chaos · Mar 19, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

speed boosts while your target is on the floor is actually more useful than you'd think. it lets you get into a more favorable body block position

IMMORTAlMITCH · Mar 19, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I can go QQ shitter-style on all of you guys if I wanted to, on how you guys can ONLY accomplish shit after all the good players have already left the scene. And even then, it's a mere joke what GvG has become. So I find all this elitist bullshit talk pretty RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hysterical, about you guys calling me a bad PvP'er and this and that. Where were you guys 3 years ago? When GW was still about skill.
Exactly, I didn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing think so...

So how about yourself then? You weren't anywhere then and you still aren't anywhere now.

It's not even worth discussing that pre-nerf PR was better than WE, it's like arguing that 2 is more than 1.

I suggest you stop posting or educate yourself before you do post.

Divinus Stella · Mar 19, 2009, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Isn't borat the guy who is really good at ritualist spike in HA?

Killed u man · Mar 19, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

speed boosts while your target is on the floor is actually more useful than you'd think. it lets you get into a more favorable body block position

On a KD'ed target, I manage to get 2 quartersteps of, and the 3th one as he gets up. This usually gives me the time to make a 180% angleswap. But yes, It DOES help you, in such a scenario, and I've thought about admitting it.

But then again, the difference is SO small, because you can already manage to do your 180% angle swap, it's hardly noticeable...

Killed u man · Mar 19, 2009, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

So how about yourself then? You weren't anywhere then and you still aren't anywhere now.

It's not even worth discussing that pre-nerf PR was better than WE, it's like arguing that 2 is more than 1.

I suggest you stop posting or educate yourself before you do post.

Being a garbageking was never one of my goals in GW, so I didn't aim for it. I'm not claiming I'm a top GvG'er, I'm saying I can definatly compete on the same skill level.

Atleast you already agree that the CURRENT PR is bad (worse than WE). Now, for the old one: So far you've said:

-Auto-crits on moving foes (But that doesn't matter when they're KD'ed and/or simply not moving. Monks still casts spells every now and then I hurd.)
-Mobility (WE has Dash)

whilst WE has got so much more going for it:

-Dash is a better anti-spike/backline than PR. (Someone threw out there that PR's were rarely backlined due to their speed, 50% faster gives a nice little... dash...)
-Spamming +40 (+50 if you count Strength) attack skills that are armor ignoring will gain your more DPS than a crit 60-80% of the time...
-WE has got the better spike damage. And looking at looking at the spike meta GvG has become (which is why it funny you call me ritspiker, since every GvG'er is a spike tool), spike > pressure at the moment. Power Attack + Prot Strike assist on every spike > Exe every second spike orso.

Build specific:

-Against Bloodspam, PR is completely useless. Sure, you can be brave, and PR away, but any half-decent Bspike (Ok I admit, even the bspikes suck at this game, atleast SoG, or eE didn't fail as terrible as the current guilds) can clean spike you with dark pact. (100 damage x 7 = large number)
You can still WE away.
-FC snares, whereas not a shitton of damage, over time, a 100 damage steam, Shard Storm and what not else builds up. As I said, EVERY second you're not in PR is one you loose compared to WE.

It's all preference and all. And I think some people don't even take the time to read my valid arguements, but I'll settle with this:

IF you manage not to get backlined, and you don't have to cancel PR more than 2-3 seconds per 10 seconds, WHILST getting a critical hit 80% of the time, then it could be better than WE. But even then, WE still has got the spike damage going for it, which is what you want nowadays, because of all the 6 defensive caster-ways...

IMMORTAlMITCH · Mar 19, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Being a garbageking was never one of my goals in GW, so I didn't aim for it. I'm not claiming I'm a top GvG'er, I'm saying I can definatly compete on the same skill level.

I'm not a top football player but I can 'definatly' compete on the same skill level, but since I don't play anymore I'm really just making a baseless claim that I can't back up in any way.

Quote:

Atleast you already agree that the CURRENT PR is bad (worse than WE). Now, for the old one: So far you've said:

I don't think the current PR is bad, it's easier to counter, it definitely has it's uses still, I do think that WE is a bit too strong especially considering how brainless it is.

Quote:

-Auto-crits on moving foes (But that doesn't matter when they're KD'ed and/or simply not moving. Monks still casts spells every now and then I hurd.)

That's exactly the point, you can't kite Primal Rage warriors which is part of the reason why it was so broken.

Quote:

-Mobility (WE has Dash)

Primal Rage at 4r and 25% IMS was faster than just Dash, on top of that the PR template also allowed for shock and an interrupt like dchop or agonizing chop and as such was a lot more versatile.

Quote:

-Dash is a better anti-spike/backline than PR. (Someone threw out there that PR's were rarely backlined due to their speed, 50% faster gives a nice little... dash...)

If you want to switch targets quickly you will need to use dash, which means there's a good chance it won't be recharged when you need it, with PR this wasnt the case and you could always have a rush build.

Quote:

-Spamming +40 (+50 if you count Strength) attack skills that are armor ignoring will gain your more DPS than a crit 60-80% of the time...

Getting kited severely reduces the amount of DPS you put out, PR warrior's couldn't get kited, WE warriors can.

Quote:

-WE has got the better spike damage. And looking at looking at the spike meta GvG has become, spike > pressure at the moment. Power Attack + Prot Strike assist on every spike > Exe every second spike orso.

Spike has pretty much always been better than pressure, WE has more spike damage and doesnt need to build adrenaline that much but it lacks shock which is a pretty common spike tool.

Quote:

-Against Bloodspam, PR is completely useless. Sure, you can be brave, and PR away, but any half-decent Bspike (Ok I admit, even the bspikes suck at this game, atleast SoG, or eE didn't fail as terrible as the current guilds) can clean spike you with dark pact. (100 damage x 7 = large number)
You can still WE away.

Who cares what's better against bloodspike? It's not like outside of dead hours on ladder it's a very common build.

Quote:

-FC snares, whereas not a shitton of damage, over time, a 100 damage steam, Shard Storm and what not else builds up. As I said, EVERY second you're not in PR is one you loose compared to WE.

Played GvG lately? No one even runs FC snares, as it gets destroyed by PnH.

Quote:

And I think some people don't even take the time to read my valid arguements, but I'll settle with this:

I think it's more that you don't have any :/

Snow Bunny · Mar 19, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Killed u man, I think you should be banned for your obstinacy in the face of overwhelming evidence.

The whole thing with a WE bar is that you simply can churn out more damage more often. It's overpowered, but you still need placement so that your attacks don't fly in the face of protted targets.

With a PR warrior (pre-nerf) you can churn out a lot of damage, you can counter kiting & prekiting, and most importantly, you don't need positioning. All of a sudden, everything that makes a warrior good is completely devalued by the fact that you can activate an elite frenzy and rape monks.

Seriously, go back to HA or whatever it is you do, and lose to Rspike. Primal was an amazing spike skill that took very little skill, which is probably why you want to use it.

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 19, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

With a PR warrior (pre-nerf) you can churn out a lot of damage, you can counter kiting & prekiting, and most importantly, you don't need positioning. All of a sudden, everything that makes a warrior good is completely devalued by the fact that you can activate an elite frenzy and rape monks.

To expand upon this. PR allowed you to;
a)switch targets easier/faster
b)get to and from splits faster
c)crit more while building an easy 5 adren deep wound
d)still allowed for templates to utilize dual kd's, plus an interrupt
e)run flags faster than any other template

PR pretty much gave the warrior template everything it shouldn't be able to do with minimal input/thinkage/skill.

Warriors endurance MAY be able to output more dps assuming you are playing against people stuck in some quick sand, the majority of the time they aren't.

The great thing about PR was all that I listed above and you didn't necessarily have to have targets KD'ed in order to pull spikes off because you could just train+unload with little time in-between attacks all the while having your crit% raised. The big thing about playing warrior and scoring kills are directly related to prime killing opportunities/windows, and you can better get those opportunities while a healer is on their behind, KD's matter. When playing WE you are really either relying on using using a team build that has lots of pressure so your random bursts of 2-3 hits cause even more but rarely kill, just a matter of time though, or you use such template in a team build that has alot of assist spike dmg if playing a spike build.

There were multiple reasons almost every single warrior was using PR over any other template including the WE template you are boasting so much about, it's because it could do everything any other warrior template could but better, and then some.

Killed You Man, I really don't know the last time you played warrior, but if you did pre PR nerf, you'd quickly be able to come to the conclusion there was a ton less thinking involving, everything was served on a platter with that template, and easily could tell how much stronger the template was over anything we've seen before.

TheHaxor · Mar 19, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

restore primar need sprit on reric run and cap points prz rry need

thanks

Edwards · Mar 19, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

DPS isn't everything. If it was, the meta would be [Moebius Strike] Sins and [Dragon Slash] Wars.

So stop arguing that just because WE does more damage (in a few instances) than PR did that it's a better skill.

Killed u man · Mar 20, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

DPS isn't everything. If it was, the meta would be [Moebius Strike] Sins and [Dragon Slash] Wars.

So stop arguing that just because WE does more damage (in a few instances) than PR did that it's a better skill.

1) Mobious Strike Sins ARE good DPS machines, but escp since recent flail nerf, lack the IAS needed in GvG. They can pressure more than a Warrior, but can't spike as good, hence pointless to run them over WE. (They lack viable DW)

2) Dragon Slash was good, but since the FGJ nerf just meh now...

scruffy · Mar 20, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I've only played a primal rage warrior in approximately 2 matches before it got nerfed but I thought that while it did make certain things easier because you move faster, the challenge came from trying to max out the efficiency of your characters movement speed. It is easier to do things with primal rage but it forces you to think about what you have to do next faster than other warrior builds so its not like the skill actually gives you free time to go durrp durrp durrp because of how easy it is.

Silent Treason · Mar 21, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

its not like the skill actually gives you free time to go durrp durrp durrp because of how easy it is.

No, thats exactly what it does.

Whenitrainsitpours · Mar 22, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

1) Mobious Strike Sins ARE good DPS machines, but escp since recent flail nerf, lack the IAS needed in GvG. They can pressure more than a Warrior, but can't spike as good, hence pointless to run them over WE. (They lack viable DW)

2) Dragon Slash was good, but since the FGJ nerf just meh now...

Dshot the lead attack, nice chain bro, oh wai...

Krill · Mar 22, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Dshot the lead attack, nice chain bro, oh wai...

Moebius recharges all attack skills, even if they are d-shot / diverted. Curious thing about sin attack skills is that if you d-shot an attack skill it still counts as being used and you can use the next offhand or dual attack.

Nobody plays moebius sin in HA because a dangerous build like this requires some thinking unlike a PS. Dragon slash, no reason for that either when WE exist for just hitting with lots of attack skills and not even having to think about energy.

FoxBat · Mar 22, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Moebius and D-Slash pressure are screwed over by blocking/blurr/blind in a way that PS and WE aren't. You miss your D-Slash and your adrenaline engine is shut down. You miss a blossom or moebius and you're waiting 2 seconds to do anything useful. Meanwhile your palm combo gets disrupted and you just hit palm and another dual to pressure, or in WE you hit prot strike regardless of what happened to power attack.

Kyp Jade · Mar 23, 2009, 02:16 AM // 02:16

This entire discussion is a joke.

Gforce · Mar 23, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Curious thing about sin attack skills is that if you d-shot an attack skill it still counts as being used and you can use the next offhand or dual attack.

This is not true, if you actually dshot the skill in its activation time it will not count as being used and will be disabled for 20 seconds. However if you use dshot slightly too late the attack will not fire but it will not be disabled and it will count as used.

I Angra I · Mar 23, 2009, 07:33 AM // 07:33

PR was amazingly overpowered and made it insanely easy to pressure as well as spike. I'm really glad it was nerfed.

Now they need to tone down WE as it is really too powerful also, just not as powerful as pre-nerf PR was.